Curse

isamu kurosawa · Sep 02, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

If the ability to take 7 heroes was added then people will just make another thread asking for 11 heroes in urgoz/deep.

upier · Sep 02, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

well if you were able to use 7heros i dont think you'd every see any other players again other then your guild making it even harder for new players/noobs to get better.

TBH - that's a risk I am willing to take.
These guys can always come to Guru and I'll yell at them here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

If the ability to take 7 heroes was added then people will just make another thread asking for 11 heroes in urgoz/deep.

I think most people here are in favor of FULL hero parties - the number 7 was chosen only because 8-man parties pretty much represent THE PvE experience (meaning that he game really starts once you have 8 people in your team).
Well at least I am in favor of full-hero parties.

isamu kurosawa · Sep 02, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

TBH - that's a risk I am willing to take.
These guys can always come to Guru and I'll yell at them here.

I think most people here are in favor of FULL hero parties - the number 7 was chosen only because 8-man parties pretty much represent THE PvE experience (meaning that he game really starts once you have 8 people in your team).
Well at least I am in favor of full-hero parties.

In that case, if this is added WTB bigger monitor.

komma · Sep 02, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

7 heroes and offline mode plz.....no but seriously 7 heroes would be pretty sick.

Chasing Squirrels · Sep 02, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Having 7 heroes will make it so that everyone will be able to blaze through everything which then leads to them getting bored faster. And there will be no economy left lol not like there is any in this game.

Tyla · Sep 02, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

What do heroes have to do with ruining the economy?

And if having 7 heroes drastically speeds up game completion it's the player's fault he's bored for rushing.

Hyper Cutter · Sep 02, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I say we go to 0 heroes. The game was far better before they existed.

No, it wasn't. Most of it was pure hell before heroes, because people and henchmen both sucked.

Bryant Again · Sep 02, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

mass effect

12345

That's an orange, Tmr asked for apples.

I'm gonna have to agree with him, though. From the start, GW's been stated as having the *option* to play with other players. While it doesn't mean that the soloing has to be as viable if not moreso, it definitely rules out the belief that you're supposed to play with others.

joshuarodger · Sep 03, 2008, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

A lot of times it looks something like this
Loki: hey guys lets do fow

LuLu: YEA LETS DO FOW
Me: yay fow

Evyl: Kay meet at GH noobs
Trubs: GUMBALLs!
Mike: Let me get a new hammer 1st
Quink: lets do DoA we have not done that forever we did fow last night

LuLu: YEA LETS DO DOA
Sigh: wow im owning this team in RA ATM
Mike: do you need a Hammer war for DoA?
Trubs: GUMBALLS!
Tyla: wow theres a lot of noobs on guru in campfire right now
Scarn: hey evyl
Scarn: evyl
Scarn: evyl
Scarn: evyl
Evyl: WHAT!
Scarn: hi
Evyl: .....
LuLu: hey guys im going to go HA l8rz
Loki: so we're not doing fow?
Me: f*** if i know
Trubs: GUMBALLS
Mike: we have not done Bogroots forever why dont we just do that? Ill get to smash things with a hammer
All of the guild: BOGROOTS!
Snow bunny: guys im ghey
All of the guild: GTFO
Trubs: GUMBALLS

wtf JD. what about Swirly?

on topic. the only reason people ever want 7 heroes is because they can't find people to do what they want to do. no one, including me, wants to PUG. use forums like this to meet people and get done what you want to do.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=269
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=266
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=268

this forum alone has plenty of resources to meet people. it's supposed to be a social game and 7 heroes makes it more antisocial than it already is.

Dark-NighT · Sep 03, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

wtf JD. what about Swirly?

on topic. the only reason people ever want 7 heroes is because they can't find people to do what they want to do. no one, including me, wants to PUG. use forums like this to meet people and get done what you want to do.

I am sorry but you are sadly mistaken!

I want 7 heroes because i dont want chicken shit henchmen with awesome outdated and rubbish builds to do my stuff with.

I want 7 heroes because it allows me to make better and more fun builds.

I want 7 heroes because hench suck (didnt i say that already?)

Well, to be to the point, pugging in the game is dead, well sort of and there is no use for me to go in a pug, knowing it WILL suck and we lose the mission or ive hit a strain of luck and we win, but ehhh cant remember the last time that happened, and im not counting ursan pugs because that was different.

Fact is, if i with my heroes screw up on a mission i can blame it on AI error and possibly some build that just dont work where i am at, i dont have to read all the terror from players when a party fails to achieve something, or im just having bad luck, which sometimes just happens.

I have no problem with pugs, i have a problem with the ammount of rude and antisocial people that i see in the game and that puts me of it, because most of the time its pretty rubbish, which is a shame.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 03:28 AM // 03:28

idk ive had a lot of good pugs, the number of good pugs did go down a lot when heros came out and move when ursan came out and even more when they nerfed it "good thing imo" im sure after a 2 or 3 months pugs may regain so of the little skill they had, Im sure every 1 will agree that back before NF came out some pugs were not that bad.

I still think heros need to be taken out just cause it will make the game harder if nothing else, and force you to play with other players etc. I think it will even help smaller guilds like taras, cause there will be more of a reason to be in a guild that players. That will be good for the game, adding 7heros so you can play alone will not.

Zebideedee · Sep 03, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

"They Said No!"

As we all know, No means No, as the vast majority knows, no means work

They have to iron out other things before they could implement & heroes, things like, why minions (non ranged) stand at walls trying to attack enemies 1 floor above, when they have no ranged attack, they just stand at the wall and get pelted to death, i know they are minions but balloons have more intelligence, rant over

Bryant Again · Sep 03, 2008, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

idk ive had a lot of good pugs, the number of good pugs did go down a lot when heros came out and move when ursan came out and even more when they nerfed it "good thing imo" im sure after a 2 or 3 months pugs may regain so of the little skill they had, Im sure every 1 will agree that back before NF came out some pugs were not that bad.

Three words: Thunder Head Keep. Not a single one of the pugs I entered - out of 9 - were able to complete it. I finally beat it when I went with *henchmen* and camped the king.

Heroes didn't turn me away from PUGS, PUGS did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

I still think heros need to be taken out just cause it will make the game harder if nothing else, and force you to play with other players etc.

That's awful. It will make the game harder and more challenging not because the game itself is difficult, but the players - and that's not what I'd call a "fun" challenge.

Also, removing them won't force me to play with "others", it will force me to play with henchmen. There are many out there who don't go solo just because they're better than your average PUG. The reasons are numerous, and many are generally backed by poor experiences. I don't think people would want to go back to those treacherous times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

That will be good for the game, adding 7heros so you can play alone will not.

We can already play alone. There are only about five areas I can't successfully complete too well in HM and that's only because you can't bring henchmen into them - and even then you only need one or two other people to complete them so they can bring *their* heroes. But aside from that, 7 heroes isn't a "need", it's a want. We don't "need" them because we're having trouble with the game (if that's the case l2p), we want them because it would provide a more in-depth and enjoyable team-building experience.

DreamWind · Sep 03, 2008, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

No, it wasn't. Most of it was pure hell before heroes, because people and henchmen both sucked.

You must have played with bad players then. I always found PvE to be easy even in bad pugs. The game has always been henchable.

Not to mention the original idea of the game was to play with guildies (ie Guild Wars), not solo.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Three words: Thunder Head Keep. Not a single one of the pugs I entered - out of 9 - were able to complete it. I finally beat it when I went with *henchmen* and camped the king.

Heroes didn't turn me away from PUGS, PUGS did.

when? when i pugged it on my monk back before heros i did it 1st time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Also, removing them won't force me to play with "others", it will force me to play with henchmen. There are many out there who don't go solo just because they're better than your average PUG. The reasons are numerous, and many are generally backed by poor experiences. I don't think people would want to go back to those treacherous times.

so? I have a lack of caring about if you have to play with henchmen cause you dont want to play with other players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

We can already play alone. There are only about five areas I can't successfully complete too well in HM and that's only because you can't bring henchmen into them - and even then you only need one or two other people to complete them so they can bring *their* heroes. But aside from that, 7 heroes isn't a "need", it's a want. We don't "need" them because we're having trouble with the game (if that's the case l2p), we want them because it would provide a more in-depth and enjoyable team-building experience.

nonono your misunderstanding me, i want ALL heros gone so you cant play alone. Adding 7 heros WILL kill the game, guilds will not be needed, theres no reason to pug or play with other players etc etc. Sure the people that like to play with other players still can but it will not be long till they move on to other games and there will not be enough new players coming in to guild wars to make up for it, and they will most likely use heros cause its all they will know.

strcpy · Sep 03, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

when? when i pugged it on my monk back before heros i did it 1st time.

Good for you - last time I tried to PUG *anything* it failed miserably. The last time I played with something other than AI or friends I was stuck on Unwaking Waters for about two hours. Teams would bring *all* melee, rush past all the afflicted thinking they could somehow trigger Kuunavang, Stand where every afflicted on the map would be aggroed, run towards the next group of afflicted when dying instead of away to regroup, all nice sorts of things. I finally just waited until late at night and got a full hench team and got masters - first try and no deaths.

I can count the number of good PUG experiences I've had on my hands and have a couple of fingers left over. Granted those times were highly enjoyable. Usually it's no big deal as I only PUG when I'm not that interested in the outcome of the mission (helping others or looking to socialize) so the above actions are amusing instead of irritating.

Quote:

so? I have a lack of caring about if you have to play with henchmen cause you dont want to play with other players.

Nice, and one may wonder why Anet doesn't "listen" to you.

Quote:

nonono your misunderstanding me, i want ALL heros gone so you cant play alone. Adding 7 heros WILL kill the game, guilds will not be needed, theres no reason to pug or play with other players etc etc.

If you want to see a mass exodus of GW players get rid of the AI - that would kill it faster than anything else. No one is forced to log into the game and play and the vast majority of current players like it because they can choose their level of interaction with other people. There are also a LARGE number of couples who play the game and don't want to do it as a couple. Get rid of that ability and they will not just go "Oh well, now I have to group with others" - they just will not play (especially given that WoW is fairly solo-small group friendly). The outposts will not be filled with teeming individuals looking for a group.

But then, as much as I would personally like to see 7 heroes I don't think that is such a good idea either. There are places where having two humans is desirable enough that you see it regularly. Two is usually fairly easy to do and you can usually vett people enough that you don't get the bad experiences you do with eight. Two is fairly easy to co-ordinate over team chat, 8 isn't. I still will not group, but then I can still do any area that will let me.

I, however, do strongly believe that all areas ought to have henchman and allowed to enter with them - while I can (and have) cleared TOPK with them no one is going to use them for efficiencies sake. If one is good enough with the AI to clear the DoA then why not let them? It's not like it will be a remotely fast way of doing it.

IMO Anet has just about the right balance, needing two people promotes a certain level of grouping yet gives us AI players most of the builds we need. It is easy enough to get two people almost anywhere in the game and it also makes it such that some can "share" heroes if it is really that important that they have that many. When they player base falls off more (and that is inevitable in *any* game) I expect them to relent and give us them, but that time isn't now.

Although the information is now old it appears as if Anet is going a different route in GW2 - instead of AI scale the instances so someone can solo it. I don't see how that is going to "fix" anything in the slightest, but oh well. The people wanting to force groups will not be happy unless you are forced, the people wanting to play by their selves will not be happy until they can - there is no way to make both side truly happy. The only thing I note is that one can not force people to group as they just leave for another game and I'm willing to bet that Anet sees that too

Ah well, after giving my 2 cents and keeping this thread alive I will have to say I was amused to see it back again.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Good for you - last time I tried to PUG *anything* it failed miserably. The last time I played with something other than AI or friends I was stuck on Unwaking Waters for about two hours. Teams would bring *all* melee, rush past all the afflicted thinking they could somehow trigger Kuunavang, Stand where every afflicted on the map would be aggroed, run towards the next group of afflicted when dying instead of away to regroup, all nice sorts of things. I finally just waited until late at night and got a full hench team and got masters - first try and no deaths.

I can count the number of good PUG experiences I've had on my hands and have a couple of fingers left over. Granted those times were highly enjoyable. Usually it's no big deal as I only PUG when I'm not that interested in the outcome of the mission (helping others or looking to socialize) so the above actions are amusing instead of irritating.

it was just 1 bad pug imo does not mean that every pug is that bad, Before heros I had a lot of good pugs "even for unwaking waters" but now that heros are in the game the only people not using them are the noobs cause they dont know what they are doing and need help, if every1 pugged there would be more players that knew what they were doing and pugging would not be as bad

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

If you want to see a mass exodus of GW players get rid of the AI - that would kill it faster than anything else. No one is forced to log into the game and play and the vast majority of current players like it because they can choose their level of interaction with other people. There are also a LARGE number of couples who play the game and don't want to do it as a couple. Get rid of that ability and they will not just go "Oh well, now I have to group with others" - they just will not play (especially given that WoW is fairly solo-small group friendly). The outposts will not be filled with teeming individuals looking for a group.

But then, as much as I would personally like to see 7 heroes I don't think that is such a good idea either. There are places where having two humans is desirable enough that you see it regularly. Two is usually fairly easy to do and you can usually vett people enough that you don't get the bad experiences you do with eight. Two is fairly easy to co-ordinate over team chat, 8 isn't. I still will not group, but then I can still do any area that will let me.

People will not leave the game cause they have to play a online game with other players, people will leave a online game if they cant find other players to play with cause every1 is using 7 heros.

pamelf · Sep 03, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Three words: Thunder Head Keep. Not a single one of the pugs I entered - out of 9 - were able to complete it. I finally beat it when I went with *henchmen* and camped the king.

Had the same with Jennur's Horde the other day. Was in a PUG and we tried for close to two hours to get the bonus. I H/H'd it after we all /ragequit and did it the first time round....

PUGS are just too hard to come by good ones. (Yes I know that sentence made limited sense but I'm too tired to actually fix it right now.) There aren't enough players in game, not enough people at an outpost when you need them, and about a million different problems that are simply not making Pugging viable anymore. 7 Heroes I really believe will end up being inevitable just to keep people playing, because the times I play I'm lucky I even see one person in any of the outposts I'm in.

JDRyder · Sep 03, 2008, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

PUGS are just too hard to come by good ones. (Yes I know that sentence made limited sense but I'm too tired to actually fix it right now.) There aren't enough players in game, not enough people at an outpost when you need them, and about a million different problems that are simply not making Pugging viable anymore. 7 Heroes I really believe will end up being inevitable just to keep people playing, because the times I play I'm lucky I even see one person in any of the outposts I'm in.

Why do you think you dont see people in the outpost you are in? due to a lack of players? or due to a lack of poeple pugging? No1 is in the outpost cause they just get there and H/H it w/o looking for a party.

ALF71BE · Sep 03, 2008, 07:15 AM // 07:15

^ Because H/H'ing is better than PuG'ing. WAY better. I mean, the other day, I pugged Hell's for the lulz, and the two eles we took had less than 400hp each and managed to die under the effect of SY! by getting into the frontlines and not kiting.

Before people would have to PuG and fail a dozen times. Now we have heroes so we don't have to be stuck a week on a mission. Of course there are henchies, and a number of missions are henchable, but in some places they just don't cut in.

And you gotta admit, there's lack of players.

Some already finished all the campaigns and know how to do it H/H, they're just finishing with another char.

Some like you get Guild groups for everything. Good for you.

Some just quit. And thousands more will continue that way.

As it was said before, Heroes didn't killed PuG's, PuG's suicided and Heroes made our day by allowing us to play comfortably (sp?).